Roksan Xerxes set up question

When you refit the plinth you should be able to jiggle the top plate a mm or two in any direction without it hitting the surround. You will feel if it is rubbing on anything. It should feel as free as it does with the plinth off.

I've done that in the past when the top plate got a little displaced - how it moved I have no idea. Thanks for all your help with this - and to Mark for pointing out that access to the blobs was from underneath the deck.

At some point I'm going to have to change the power supply as it struggles to get up to speed without a helping hand. I'll leave that for another day.

Mark Ph Member

If you have it setup correctly there should be next no noticeable difference sonically between plinth on and plinth off. You just need to ensure the top plate is centred so it doesn’t touch any side and low enough that it doesn’t touch the lip around the edge (go too low and the motor pulley will hit the underside of the platter).

Whilst you are fiddling it is worth sticking the platter on upside down and checking the belt is riding nicely. Also ensure the main bearing is correctly oiled. The really thin spindle of the Xerxes can apparently drill through the bearing housing if it runs dry!

That appears to be a lovely rosewood veneer.

I’ll mention that the turntable’s frame, probably equally fetching, is not solely cosmetic: bolted down, the frame increases the sub plinth’s mass, and therefore the combination’s effectiveness as an energy sink. Of course, if the top plinth fouls on the frame, all bets are off. The Xerxes bearing should be cleaned and oiled semi-annually. Tolerances are such that three to four oil drops suffice. However thin, a dry Xerxes spindle drilling through its housing, would require it first boring through a steel bearing ball, at which point I can’t imagine the platter assembly turning.

Speaking of the main bearing ball, Roksan offers a new one of Tungsten Carbide, developed for the Xerxes 20plus and the TMS3. Per gram, the ball costs more than -- -- name your substance -- but the improvement is significant. Getting the old bearing ball out for replacement, though, is a tale for another day.

Yomanze pfm Member Talk about ideosycratic! Stunsworth pfm Member

Mark, yes Rosewood. I paid extra for it when I bought the turntable in the 80s - from the Music Room in Manchester.

Thanks for the tip about the bearing, I didn’t realise the oil needed to be changed so frequently.

mercalia pfm Member oil change? depends how much you use it? Stunsworth pfm Member oil change? depends how much you use it?

Until now not a great deal, maybe a couple of hours a week. However today, after removing the frame, it’s been a solid 12 hours.

mercalia pfm Member

I dont know if oil deteriorates but there aint much in the bearing so it pays to renew it now and then? as for cleaning all i do is to put enough oil in so it overflows

pocketkitchen Registered User

I also have an original one with the toggle switch psu that runs hot. I took the cover of this some time ago as I hear the poor ventilation cooked the innards. I cured the sag myself with small metal bracket I got from a hardware store for a few £s & screwed across the gap at about 11 oclock. I havent noticed any sound quality loss or extra motor noise break thru. It is easy to adjust the blobs height once the cosmetic frame is off as you can twist them from the side (3 or 4 hex screws I think to remove?) To align the top and bottom use a screw driver thru the 3 transport holes. The nice things about these decks was how simple they are to set up. I still have the original blobs still in fine condition after 20+ years and I see no reason to change them. To remove the cosmetic frame you dont realy need to put it on its side as the screws on the bottom can easily be found by touch as the heads are not flush with the base. the transport screws are nothing special? maybe some knows the size? I have the tripod stand I picked up cheap from the dealer who stopped selling the player, £20 I think long time ago. It is still a good record player, at the end of the day the medium is more limited than the player?

The bracket fix is what I used when I had one. Worked perfectly and one of their UK reps strongly recommended doing it that way too.

mercalia pfm Member

The bracket fix is what I used when I had one. Worked perfectly and one of their UK reps strongly recommended doing it that way too.

it would have been better and prescient had Roksan left a bit of the top board un cut there so there could be no future sag?

Stunsworth pfm Member

The “so called sag” is real and prevents the deck from working. To claim it isn’t a problem is disingenuous in the extreme. They never changed a top plate because they came up with a bodge to make the failing decks work again.

Tony L Administrator

Have you ever looked into why the Xerxes was designed this way in the first place? By bracing the cut out you are totally going against the original design spec.

Here is a quote I dug out from years ago from Touraj himself:

There is absolutely nothing good about bracing the cut-out portion of the Xerxes. The so called 'sag' is a misleading term; this portion acts as part of the decoupling and allows the arm/platter to have a degree of freedom sympathetic to the way the arm /cartridge/record are required to move. Due to the weight of the platter assembly & the arm this section will sit at approx 2 degrees down (like a diving board) and just like a diving board, if you stand on the end it will not continue to 'drop' downwards! It merely has a different frequency and a specified 'direction' of movement critical to the way the record player works. If the setup is followed as per our service and user manuals there is no reason to brace or change any top plinths. As you may know many happy customers' (not necessarily vocal!) record players have been serviced and upgraded at Roksan over the last 25 years and we have never changed a top plinth on any Xerxes due to this design feature. Please stick to the original design and service/upgrade as per our instructions and you will never go wrong. The shim kit is the only solution which doesn't compromise the performance of the Xerxes.

Utter BS from a company with exceptionally poor customer care IMHO. The above entitely misses the impact of the ‘sag’ on azimuth etc as the arm plane gradually moves out of line with the main bearing. Fine if you have a unipivot, but very significant otherwise. Secondly as the sag progresses it becomes increasingly impossible to level the deck without either the top plate hitting the plinth lip or the motor crashing against the underneath of the platter. Sadly the Xerxes was an interesting and initially decent sounding turntable with sub-Ikea/MFI build quality and a total refusal from the company to take ownership of what was a blindingly obvious design flaw. I still feel cheated to this day to be honest and as I’ve said before I’d not touch anything Roksan ever again! I so wish I’d bought the Linn that day as that would have held its resale value (I virtually gave my Xerxes away).

PS If anyone doesn’t think it was a hopeless design flaw why did they fix it with the Xerxes X!

Stunsworth pfm Member

It’s a bodge because the fault was unexpected when the deck was originally released and the shim was never part of the original design.

Like Tony there were many times when I wished I’d bought a Linn. In fact the main reason I didn’t was because of all the BS surrounding the product.

The annoying thing is that for a couple of years I was working in Wembley literally next door to the Roksan factory without realising it and could easily have dropped off the deck for repair.

Tony L Administrator

How do the shims work? They were still in full denial mode when mine failed (it was one of the very first all black ones with a black lid, I bought it in ‘86 I think, just after the first Hi-Fi Review review).

PS Here’s my only picture of it, this would be ‘88 as there are Naim amps, but no HiCap or Kans:

I’m surprised by how few records I had back then!

mercalia pfm Member

Have you ever looked into why the Xerxes was designed this way in the first place? By bracing the cut out you are totally going against the original design spec.

Here is a quote I dug out from years ago from Touraj himself:

do you honestly think he would accept there is a fault and open himself to extended warranty claims and his ego bruised? ANY WAY the bracket works for me, I cant hear any significant consequence - I only have modest cartridge ( Ortofon 2M Bronze ) and play back gear - Musical Fidleity XLPS v3 and Audiolab gear thru Epos M12i's. and it sounds as good as my Audiolab 8200cdq playing the same recordings on LP and CD. I cant hear any motor noise thru the cartridge and the grooove noise is almost non existant apart from clicks.

The droop is the result of the material they used that they failed to understand the properties of and should never have happened at all - if they had used the correct materials? if there were no such materials then the design was implemented using inappropraite materials and they should have thought again re the design.

In the quote I would like him to have said "we tested using a bracket and the results were such and so. " all he seems to be detailing is theoretical ideas?

mercalia pfm Member

I'm not missing the point at all - the main bearing has to be adjusted to the arm plane as part of the initial setup - the bearing is on the same plane as the arm anyway so any difference would be tiny, and even this difference would be irrelevant once the bearing level is set.

The problem was the quality of mdf at a certain point in manufacturing, I agree totally that Roksan were at fault at the time. But not all mdf is of the same grade, much like plywood.

For example I own a circa 1991 TMS made with mdf and it has sagged by

and what a silly idea that is relying on the bendy material of variable properties to maitain an constant "sag" and therefore trueness of the system, over the years - wood absorbs water over time or dries out. Bad engineering practice I think.

Any way my days of buying record players are over and the Xerxes I have is all I have and it seems good enough for me - I dont have pretensions of "perfect sound for ever" ( another lie )

I probably wish I had bought a Michel deck.

Salamander pfm Member I’m surprised by how few records I had back then! But you was just a lad then Tony. Tony L Administrator

Surely given the nature of the material, the nature of the cut, and the long proven effects of gravity on this planet there was only one logical outcome? I have to admit part of my irritation/annoyance with the whole thing is with myself for falling for such a dumb idea! I just wish I knew then what I know now as I’d just have bought a properly engineered turntable like a 301 or TD-124 which could be had for about £50 back in the ‘80s!

Stunsworth pfm Member

I just wish I knew then what I know now as I’d just have bought a properly engineered turntable like a 301 or TD-124 which could be had for about £50 back in the ‘80s!

Well, back in those days Naim would only sell you an amp if it was being used with an LP12. It’s a miracle they didn’t blow up when fed from something else.

mercalia pfm Member

And how many record players from umpteen manufacturers use mdf? It is chosen as an engineering material precisely because it is more stable than wood and less likely to absorb moisture due to its glue content. It's also why the Xerxes plinth was sealed with laminate to prevent that happening.

You fail to recognise that there are varying qualities of this material just like metal or plastic, it's just a generic term. I don't dispute that the drooping Xerxeses used mdf of inferior quality.

Its not the material but the use they put it to - how many decided to cut away the middle and let it dangle from a small section?

hp1 pfm Member

I made a fix for the xerxes sag which works a treat ,basically its a bolt which is kept under tension with a coil spring and a bracket which is cranked.

The thread for the bolt is provided by a T nut and the bolt is fitted in the top plate between the arm pillar and outer platter .

The bracket is screwed to the under side of the suspended mdf top very near the rear suspension blob .It sits lower than the under side of

the mdf so as not to connect the 2 sections and reaches across the gap to the bolt shank.

When playing the deck the bolt is unscrewed a couple of turns by finger tip to release it from the bracket so there is no bridging of the gap

and when not in use tighten the bolt onto the bracket to prevent the sag.

The bolt is actually a stainless steel cap screw so it looks acceptable, is nice to turn by hand and does not corrode.

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